Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

Yeah, yeah. There are too many jokes there. It gets worse:

So I dropped the engine out of my non-running $150 barn-find 85 with the nasty cylinder/piston scoring. I took off the piston in preparation for its pending replacement. I noticed that the connecting rod is very stiff. Meaning, if you stand it straight up and let go it stays there. Previous bikes I have torn apart all had more 'loose' rod that if you held it and let go it would fall back down to touch the case. This one just stays stationary.

Should it be that tight? Will it loosen up with some oil? Bad bearing?

It must have been sitting a long time, shoot it with some carb cleaner then 2 stroke oil, its the lateral play in the rod that kills a piston.

I think"Mookie" was right when he said, they may have run it with no oil." as "tiger would say, hay man,what does that red light mean"? if it doesn't loosen up with some lube its time to "crack er open".

Man I hope not

So it should be 'loose' enough to fall back on it's own weight?

yes it should fall back on its own!! sounds like mook was right,no oil could cause that. man hope the oil will work out for ya. hope the roller bearings didnt flat spot.

d***.

The experience on the site is amazing. Mookie and others called it.

It's soaking in oil now. I doubt it will loosen enough to turn as freely as my other Sprees I had torn apart. A floppy rod is a happy rod.

bradmeehan wrote:Yeah, yeah. There are too many jokes there. It gets worse:

So I dropped the engine out of my non-running $150 barn-find 85 with the nasty cylinder/piston scoring. I took off the piston in preparation for its pending replacement. I noticed that the connecting rod is very stiff. Meaning, if you stand it straight up and let go it stays there. Previous bikes I have torn apart all had more 'loose' rod that if you held it and let go it would fall back down to touch the case. This one just stays stationary.

Should it be that tight? Will it loosen up with some oil? Bad bearing?

when i stop laughing i'll chime in...

mookie wrote:

bradmeehan wrote:Yeah, yeah. There are too many jokes there. It gets worse:

So I dropped the engine out of my non-running $150 barn-find 85 with the nasty cylinder/piston scoring. I took off the piston in preparation for its pending replacement. I noticed that the connecting rod is very stiff. Meaning, if you stand it straight up and let go it stays there. Previous bikes I have torn apart all had more 'loose' rod that if you held it and let go it would fall back down to touch the case. This one just stays stationary.

Should it be that tight? Will it loosen up with some oil? Bad bearing?

when i stop laughing i'll chime in...

haven't gotten past the standing it up and it not moving bit...
are we taking the *??

sh*t- i'm a hero!!

o.k. really...i'm gathering the thought.
typical long term scooter/ bicycle/ motorcycle/car/ tractor scenario.

moisture and neglect.

i'll cut to the chase...
you have nothing to lose by:

removing the engine from the chassis-
top end is off already and ... you ready....

attempt to dodge the bullet.
"it all depends"- on everything.
but you can try to save it. cheap.
for now. for a long time maybe. possibly.
must salvage crank bearings. possible?

how?can it be done?
lets find out.
nevermind.
it's f****d.

what els e you got...?

if it doesnt go limp, just crack the case, and replace bearing, check for rusted parts, lite oil and lite touch with emerycloth on crank and new bearing should help.

mookie wrote:when i stop laughing i'll chime in...

I warned you...

Do you know how many sentences I had to rewrite because they sounded so bad? That was the clean version.

Btw: after playing with it all night, my rod is still stiff. Not floppy like yours.

she-ot!
what'd you spray on that puppy!???

and where do i get it by the case...

seriously though.

there are a few things to consider not the least of which are the crank seals.
if it were me and i wanted to at least try to maintain the bargain aspect of the "find" i'd:

attempt to salvage the bottom end as it sits first.
NO not the most intregity laden choice but a in-expensive one. maybe.
start with WD type cheap lube from Wallywurl.
the idea is to free and rinse clean the sticky bearings.

pour kerosene or old premix or soapy water into the crankcase.
shake it around.
repeat til it either does or does not spin freely.
it really depends on the level of rust and corrosion that the bearing are at.
or you can go straight to the failsafe straight to the heart of the matter method and completely rebuild the engine or buy one without the issues at hand.all down to time and money.

if your rod stayed stiff even after the spraying you gave it you may have already answered the question for yourself but your not over having such a stiff rod yet.
happens all the time....

Greetings:

May I suggest you split the cases and source either a used Honda crank or (if you're feeling adventurous...) a mini-stroker. If the crank bearing is an unknown, (and you can't get it to behave normally by soaking the spooge out in a solvent vat for a few days) it's going to be an awful lot of wasted work rebuilding. There is a possibility that it's just a congealed oil/amber issue like a bad fuel tank. This is something I'd take in to Deepinnaharta Honda for a weekend ride in their ultrasonic parts cleaner tank. If it comes out still feeling gritty the bearing itself may be munched.

I checked one of the Factory Service Manuals: Disassembly of the Factory-pressed crankshaft itself isn't even described. I don't even know the composition of the big-end bearing, but I suspect it's a needle or roller-bearing construction. Pressing the crankshaft apart to look will require a bigger press than most shops have. If you can soak it to free movement, the specs for side/vertical play and true are covered in the FSM.

WARNING: If you experience rod stiffness lasting more than 4 hours, call your Factory-Trained Honda-san Technician immediately.

Good luck!

Wheelman-111 wrote:I don't even know the composition of the big-end bearing, but I suspect it's a needle or roller-bearing construction.

To be honest, I simply don't have the tools to split the case and replace the bearings (that is, if you follow the instructions in the manual). Maybe it's easier than described, but I doubt it. It's something I'd like to learn, though as this has come up twice w/my 5 Sprees.

or..I may opt for a crankcase swap (with rod in tact), which I've done recently on another bike.

Who here has split a case for real?

Greetings:

I have done 2 crankcase splits, which hardly qualifies me as an expert. Both times I borrowed the correct assembly tool and collar from Honda-san. (Bought pizza and McBreakfastFood-LikeSubstance for the dealership a couple times. Best $40 I ever spent... ) It's not a tool in high demand at the Dealership, and they were willing to lend it to me overnight. The tools make bearing and seal installation pain-free and fool-proof - unless you fail to pay attention to the rod's position when you begin to compress the halves.

Limp1144 documented a rock-and-stick crankcase split somewhere (with pics) last spring. You razor-knife the gasket, then find a solid pry or whack point to separate the cases. You're fighting a light press-fit of the bearings onto the crank on one side, and a firm press-fit of the bearing into the case on the other. It may be possible to adapt a universal puller to do the separation deed. However reassembly without risk to the crank trueness is trickier. Whatever you do, avoid using the aluminum case threads to perform the function of pulling the case halves together.

That universal puller could serve to press the halves together if you find some M6 All-thread rods and screw them all the way down into the L case. Then you use nuts over washers on the puller to squeeze the halves together. Beware: If there's any misalignment of the bearings, you could squeeze your crankshaft out of true.