Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

I think you have oil in your crankcase, as mentioned. Take off the intake and tip the motor on its side to see if any oil poors out of the manifold.

If oil is getting in there, it can only come from one place - the oil pump. Usually a leaky oil pump will leak into the crankcase while the scooter is sitting and cause smoky starts but then be ok once that is burned off. Sounds like yours might be leaking a little more severely or just finally fouled the plug.

You'll need to get any oil in the case out - you'll probably want to pull the oil pump out and check it. If it's not obvious that the pump is leaking, you can set it in a cup overnight (still connected to oil tank) and check to see if any came out. A new plug will obviously be in order. I've often wondered if this situation would warrant a cleaning of the muffler- maybe someone will chime in on that.

You typically will need to replace the pump if it's leaking bad enough. Let us know what you find out, there are probably plenty of members with oil pumps - in fact, I have 2 Spree oil pumps and no Spree so keep posting.

breaze wrote:If oil is getting in there, it can only come from one place - the oil pump. Usually a leaky oil pump will leak into the crankcase while the scooter is sitting and cause smoky starts but then be ok once that is burned off. Sounds like yours might be leaking a little more severely or just finally fouled the plug.

You'll need to get any oil in the case out - you'll probably want to pull the oil pump out and check it. If it's not obvious that the pump is leaking, you can set it in a cup overnight (still connected to oil tank) and check to see if any came out. A new plug will obviously be in order. I've often wondered if this situation would warrant a cleaning of the muffler- maybe someone will chime in on that.

You typically will need to replace the pump if it's leaking bad enough. Let us know what you find out, there are probably plenty of members with oil pumps - in fact, I have 2 Spree oil pumps and no Spree so keep posting.

I had so much in mine it wouldn't even turn over, and flooded the top of the piston. What a mess that was.

I will check the oil pump for leaks this evening when im off work. What exactly am I looking for? lots of oil around the pump, or at the intake manifold? I was thinking of taking a long qtip and sticking it down the opening for oil? Ill keep you guys posted,

Chaz

I believe the typical leak is where the shaft goes into the pump. The seal around the shaft wears out. If the pump is in good shape, it should do its job and only pump oil through the output line into the nipple on the intake to add to the mix. If there is oil puddled up at the bottom of the shaft - that would indicate a leak. To know how much it is leaking, you will need to either determine how much is in the crankcase or leave the pump connected, place it in a container and leave it overnight - preferrably a couple of nights - no oil should come out.

Seems like there would be a better way to empty the oil out of the crankcase than pulling off the manifold. I've never had to do this except when I had the engine removed and the manifold off. I believe I've read tips on this in the forum before - try searching around a bit. Maybe it will pour right out the pump hole.

To get the pump out you have to take the motor out though, no?

lol pouring out of the manifold is the best way I have found. I just tipped it on its side and out it came.

Ok guys, heres the *,


I was in the process of removing the fan shroud and top cover in order to get to the manifold, and I noticed something that I was too dumb to see before, oil behind the flywheel near the bottom, where presumably the bottom of the crankshaft is.

I included pics of the leak, and I assumbe that you were right, that I had a slow leak over time, and that extended riding either aggravated the oil pump leak, or finally got up and fouled the plug. If you guys confirm through the pics that this IS a oil leak in the crankshaft, where do I go from here? Do I take the oil pump off and replace? I will obviously clean up down there, but do I need to check anything else?

Keep me posted, thanks

Chaz

Not an oil pump issue. That is a crank seal issue.

Back to square one, lol now what? Whould a leaking crankshaft seal contribute to my problem?

Thanks,

Chaz

The over filling of the cases could have caused a crank leak. Remove the spark plug, crank the engine. If oil comes out, you have answered your question. Replace with a new plug when the oil stops coming out. When she cranks over, expect A LOT OF SMOKE!

on the down strok of the motor the case come under pressure and if the seal is bad it will let some mix out of the case and on the up strok it will suck in air.. you shod look at both ends of the crank to see if the oil is comming from the seals .. or were it comming from ???
swimmingfree

Crank seals are fairly inexpensive - get your manual out and see where they are - one on each side. It is obviously leaking on the flywheel side but it may also be leaking on the variator side. Probably want to replace both just so you don't have to worry about it. You'll need a flywheel puller to remove the flywheel (probably) and you'll want to read up about the left side cover and what's underneath. It really isn't a big job if you read thru the forum and your manual first. Also remember that you still need to find out if the pump is leaking - follow Marty's advice there.

1) Follow Marty's advice pulling the plug...
2) Remove the oil pump, and find out if it is leaking (almost certainly is if oil comes out when turning over in step 1)
3) Order 2 seals, flywheel puller, new plug, and find a replacement pump if needed - you'll also need a tool to hold the flywheel (on right side) or variator (on left side) in order to remove the nut on the flywheel and variator.
4) While you're waiting, read thru the forum on removing the variator, flywheel, etc. - also some good tips on pulling the seals out. Also look thru manual for these processes
5) When you get your parts and tools, you should be able to replace the seals, put in a new pump, bleed the pump lines, and install a new plug in an afternoon

Good tips I've found useful:

1) Seals can be removed by carefully drilling a small hole, then use a screw to tap into the seal and pull it out - notice how far in the original seal is before removing so you will know how far to push the new seals in - use a socket or something similar to seat the new seals
2) When removing the variator (if you decide to replace both seals) you can pull the clutch apart and wedge a block of wood or some implement (about a 1/4 to 1/3 inch thick between the clutch pulley to hold it open (on the variator side where the belt is clear). This will loosen the belt and allow the variator to be removed without pulling the clutch
3) A strap wrench on the flywheel side or a chain tool on the variator side will hold the crankshaft still while removing the nuts. If you don't have one of these, you can rent an air conditioning clutch holding tool from Auto Zone which will hold the flywheel (rental program uses a returnable deposit so it's free).

Good luck

Whats the best way to remove the oil pump?

The oil pump is simply removed by loosening the retaining clip around it and pulling it out.

However, if you plan to do away with the pump you must purchase a plug or grind the teeth off of the pump so that it does not function.

A leaky pump usually does not cause horrific issues unless the bike has sat for an extended period. Personally, I would get it running clean up the oil and monitor the situation.

IF you do away with the pump you are now premixing. I hate premixing, it isn't as easy as filling the tank with gas while out on a ride.

It is possible that under normal conditions you will not leak. The pressure of all the fluid could be the cause of your leak.
Without the pressure inside it may be just fine.

I have a good pump available if you need it.

breaze wrote: 3) A strap wrench on the flywheel side will hold the crankshaft still while removing the nuts. If you don't have one of these, you can rent an air conditioning clutch holding tool from Auto Zone which will hold the flywheel (rental program uses a returnable deposit so it's free).

Good luck

You don't wanna do that.

Holding the flywheel side of the crank to loosen bolts on the variator side puts stress on the crank.

Always hold it form the same side.