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Re: 1985 aero 50 mods
Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:53 pm
by turtle13
Bear45-70 wrote:bc117 wrote:ok read the manual and found the vin# guess i have the worthless 1985 model .....................................
No one, especially me said the '85 was worthless. Besides that over carburating is the biggest tuning issue I've seen on this forum and I will bet you can do well over 45 mph with the stock intake and carb.
i can attest to this as def possible, careful porting in the right areas doesnt hurt either.
Re: 1985 aero 50 mods
Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:04 pm
by Bear45-70
*. Trafficjamz made an adapter to put the CT intake on a Spree and the same set up would work on the '85 Aero 50.
Re: 1985 aero 50 mods
Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:52 pm
by bc117
ok id be very interested in seeing that adapter, and i was kinda wondering my scoot has 1900 miles as of tonight, any one think i should pull the head and check how things are goin in there and maybe do some porting?
Re: 1985 aero 50 mods
Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:01 pm
by Petrock's 1984 Spree
The adapter is super simple to make
Im 16 and managed to get it done so anyone can make one
I made mine out of aluminum
Its just time intensive, you gotta put in a some hours to get it right
Re: 1985 aero 50 mods
Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:18 am
by bc117
sounds good if you could post a pic thatd be great, hey guys im about 50% done making my exhaust pipe! i got the expansion chamber from a "ktm 65?" rearranged and tacked up and now i just need to make her air tight, weld it to the stock header and pack a silencer
Re: 1985 aero 50 mods
Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:53 am
by Bear45-70
bc117 wrote:sounds good if you could post a pic thatd be great, hey guys im about 50% done making my exhaust pipe! i got the expansion chamber from a "ktm 65?" rearranged and tacked up and now i just need to make her air tight, weld it to the stock header and pack a silencer
Uh, 2 stroke exhaust tuning is not that easy. It's 2 parts science, 2 parts black magic and 1 part luck. You need to read up on 2 stroke exhaust tuning. Look here.
http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5?title=Main_Page
Also find Gordon Jenning's "2 stroke Tuners handbook"
Re: 1985 aero 50 mods
Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:18 am
by bc117
well bear i guess it will be at the least a fun expirement if it ends in failure and i have been looking around on the web and it seems that a long thin header = bottomend, short wide header = topend, and a long wide header = midrange, so far i have a long thin header which should be low rpm power and i also found for a 49cc engine the volume of the pipe needs to be at 630ccm3 to make power at 8000rpm. so any thing under 630cc should yeild a power band that will be hitting at or below a reasonably safe 8k.
Re: 1985 aero 50 mods
Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:09 am
by ScooterTweaks
Bear45-70 wrote:ScooterTweaks wrote:I think you might be mistaken a little... The 85, 86, 87 are all good to have. They use the same motor as the 87 SE50 Elite: AF05E
Lots of parts available and you can make them pretty quick. Big bore kit, change some final drive gears, change the variator and rear pulley, then get a larger carb to match. I suggest getting a good 72cc performance pipe and have it cut/welded to fit this bike. The few pipes specific to the bike I dont car for much, but thats just me... These bikes use CVT so a pipe that is peaky is not so bad. Just be sure the pipe you use makes power in the rpm band the cylinder can support. You can find details about this type of stuff in the "performance technical" section on this forum.
Anyway, I have an 85 and 86 Aero as well as a 87 SE50 Elite and all the motors can be upgraded. Take your time and you will end with a fun, peppy, reliable scooter.
Good luck and have fun!
ScooterSteve
Notice I said nothing about the intake manifolds... All the motors I have currently have the 4 bolt intake manifold. I will admit that I have not pulled my 85 engine yet or inspected it against my other motors. What I understand is that the other parts of the engines are interchangeable as well us upgradeable. So does this mean that the "only" difference from the 85 to 86 is the kick starter and intake manifold? If I am wrong about these engines then shame on me. I can't wait to have some time to crack open my 85 and make some comparisons. I only wanted to say that he is not left in the dark. There are things that can be done. I also agree that there are too many people using way too big of carbs. But again thats just me. I have run both a 21 and 24mm on my monster Derbi Piaggio motors and only found the 24mm flat slide to be more responsive under any load at any rpm but I believe this is just because it is a more efficient carb. My take off and top speed are not effected. This is of course after proper tuning of both carbs on the same bike. My AF05E builds will prob never see anything bigger than 19mm but I have a lot of brand new dellorto 17.5 and many jets so these are pretty choice right now.
Guys I have always tried not to speak out of my *, so please just fully read my post and its meaning then inform me on my possible mistakes.
As always this is my place to go for scooter going ons. Thanks for the info.
ScooterSteve
I have 1 '85 scooter and two spare '85 motors and you are wrong as the '85 has the same style intake as the Spree and the SB50, not the same as the motors that will easily accept the CT manifold.
Re: 1985 aero 50 mods
Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:02 pm
by bc117
ya sadly my pipe catastrophically failed it definitely turned out to be a topend pipe and all the welds failed and started leaking after like 2 mins of riding, oh well double thanks to whoever suggested campfiring the stock exhaust it gave me so much bottom end i feel stupid for messing up that dirt bike exhaust
Re: 1985 aero 50 mods
Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:35 pm
by turtle13
You're welcome! If you are over restricting your exhaust, you can't bring in enough air and gas, and therefor performance suffers. There are other ways to clean everything out, but I've found a gas grill or campfire to be easiest (and the cleanest).
Re: 1985 aero 50 mods
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:11 pm
by bc117
ya thanks turtle, any one know which is a cheaper way to go faster changing the final drive gears or the variator, and i think some one said i could mod the case to run dio gears?
Re: 1985 aero 50 mods
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:58 pm
by Wheelman-111
Greetings:
The unique '85 Aero lacks a kickstarter in stock form, and also the oil pump has no throttle cable control. I suspect the pump itself may be different. The biggest and most obvious difference is the 2-bolt, SB-type case port that can put additional limitations on possible carb/intake upgrades.
Honda-san is wise; gearing is well-selected for stock power. Gearing much taller might not make the scooter any faster unless you also increase engine output. It absolutely will slow take-off acceleration, so proceed with caution on any gear swapping. In the unlikely event you can find an '87 SE50 with the elusive 10:1s, snap 'em up unless you intend to do a big-bore with all the trimmin's. In that case 9:1s or 8.4s from a Dio conversion will be the best option.
Meanwhile, a Keli Variator from DayWot is a good choice, as is a stock Ruck Variator. The face of the Ruck vario is a little bigger in diameter, so there's your "upgear" - a little - with no downside on take-off. Bradley the Cubic was selling a couple here in FS/WTB section. You might need to carve some room for the bigger face there at the starter webbing, but it's worth it IMO.
Re: 1985 aero 50 mods
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:54 pm
by bc117
ya i kind a thought about it and the variator is probly the best bet since i dont want to lose any power, so will the ruckus variator give a bigger increase in speed than the keli since it sounds alot larger
Re: 1985 aero 50 mods
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:09 pm
by Wheelman-111
Greetings:
Again, an increase in speed will not happen without an increase in power or a decrease in drag unless the scooter is geared horribly low in the first place. A bigger variator face won't go any faster than a small one if the engine doesn't have the power to drive the belt up to the rim. Now if you've got a tailwind or a downhill, maybe...
Now if you do some things to increase power output, like a pipe or BBK, then absolutely. The problem with the Aero becomes the 11.1:1 gearing. It's too short even for a modestly-modded kit, even with a big vario and fat tires.
Re: 1985 aero 50 mods
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:52 pm
by turtle13
the two biggest immediate differences i found were with putting in a slightly stiffer center spring in the clutch (brought back a good amount of low end) and the Keli Variator WITH the SEF ramp plate. the keli on its own picked up 1 or 2 mph, but with the SEF it was much more "shiftier" and picked up an extra 2-3. it responded worlds better when i would have to let off the throttle then get back on it quickly. a 90/90 tire helps to the tune of about 1 mph as well, but the difference in handling is worlds better. they are just a huge pain to put on (or atleast the sl26 is).
the ruck vari i cant speak to much of personaly just yet as i still havent finished building my new motor for my aero.
if your gonna keep it at 50, i wouldnt go much higher than 10:1 on gearing though. even with a pipe, porting, stiffer center spring, vari, o ringed head and 10:1s my engine at 50cc, my engine ran out of power and gear right in the low mid 50s. if you go much higher on the ratio your gonna loose a really good amount of low end to the gears.