Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

konaking wrote:In hawaii it never gets cold enough to need a bystarter. Most people just put the bystarter needle back to its normal position and disconnect the power wire when their bystarter gets old and jammed

With the Aero 80 and a number of earlier engines there is no needle. The system is controlled by a bi-metal valve that controls vacuum from the intake that determines whether or not there is extra fuel and air sucked into the intake. So your fix for the later systems will not work on this system. Oh and the fix you described would leave the bystarter feeding extra fuel ALL the TIME. To shut off the extra fuel, the needle MUST be EXTENDED not retracted, which is the normal position for the bystarter needle.

Greetings:

He doesn't say this specifically, but I suspect KonaKing means that the bystarter plunger is placed into the socket and stuck there somehow, so it's always in the "Run" position. Dunno how they'd do this, but should be pretty easy as long as you're sure you'll never need enrichener again. A plug of JB Weld?

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

He doesn't say this specifically, but I suspect KonaKing means that the bystarter plunger is placed into the socket and stuck there somehow, so it's always in the "Run" position. Dunno how they'd do this, but should be pretty easy as long as you're sure you'll never need enrichener again. A plug of JB Weld?

Yeah I just didn't know how to word it correctly without bear taking a bite out of my @ss.

konaking wrote:

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

He doesn't say this specifically, but I suspect KonaKing means that the bystarter plunger is placed into the socket and stuck there somehow, so it's always in the "Run" position. Dunno how they'd do this, but should be pretty easy as long as you're sure you'll never need enrichener again. A plug of JB Weld?

Yeah I just didn't know how to word it correctly without bear taking a bite out of my @ss.

Listen real carefully as I will only say this once more, THERE IS NO PLUNGER IN THE AERO 80 CARB. IT IS ALL CONTROLLED BY AIR FLOW (vacuum).

I wish I had read this post before I sold my old 81 Express SR. It had the thermal valve operated choke and I was never able to get it functioning properly. I'm kicking myself for not implementing this solution - so simple, so effective. I thought about similar mods but never put forth the effort.

If you think about it, having this set-up with this solution turns a bad design from Honda into a superior solution. Whether you have the vacuum operated bi-metallic valve set-up, the electronic plunger set-up, or even the old manual choke lever running down to the carb and opening up the extra fuel flow, you're always wondering if it is operating properly when you experience problems.

In this set-up, you can take advantage of a nipple on the carb supplying fuel to the system and have complete control of whether the system is engaged or not using a good ol manual valve. Using the clear fuel lines also gives complete visibility that leaves no doubt whether it is operating correctly or not.

If Bear's Aero is an 83, sounds like Honda was using this type of choke system 81 - 83. My old Expresses (pre-81) had manual lever systems, and 84 Sprees have the electronic auto-choke. Did the 83 Aero 50's have this system? Seems like this mod would be very helpful for anyone with models using it.

breaze wrote:I wish I had read this post before I sold my old 81 Express SR. It had the thermal valve operated choke and I was never able to get it functioning properly. I'm kicking myself for not implementing this solution - so simple, so effective. I thought about similar mods but never put forth the effort.

If you think about it, having this set-up with this solution turns a bad design from Honda into a superior solution. Whether you have the vacuum operated bi-metallic valve set-up, the electronic plunger set-up, or even the old manual choke lever running down to the carb and opening up the extra fuel flow, you're always wondering if it is operating properly when you experience problems.

In this set-up, you can take advantage of a nipple on the carb supplying fuel to the system and have complete control of whether the system is engaged or not using a good ol manual valve. Using the clear fuel lines also gives complete visibility that leaves no doubt whether it is operating correctly or not.

If Bear's Aero is an 83, sounds like Honda was using this type of choke system 81 - 83. My old Expresses (pre-81) had manual lever systems, and 84 Sprees have the electronic auto-choke. Did the 83 Aero 50's have this system? Seems like this mod would be very helpful for anyone with models using it.

Honda also used thi on the 1984 Aero 80. In 1985 the Aero 80 got the electrical system started by the Aero 50 in 1983.

breaze wrote:I wish I had read this post before I sold my old 81 Express SR. It had the thermal valve operated choke and I was never able to get it functioning properly. I'm kicking myself for not implementing this solution - so simple, so effective. I thought about similar mods but never put forth the effort.

If you think about it, having this set-up with this solution turns a bad design from Honda into a superior solution. Whether you have the vacuum operated bi-metallic valve set-up, the electronic plunger set-up, or even the old manual choke lever running down to the carb and opening up the extra fuel flow, you're always wondering if it is operating properly when you experience problems.

In this set-up, you can take advantage of a nipple on the carb supplying fuel to the system and have complete control of whether the system is engaged or not using a good ol manual valve. Using the clear fuel lines also gives complete visibility that leaves no doubt whether it is operating correctly or not.

If Bear's Aero is an 83, sounds like Honda was using this type of choke system 81 - 83. My old Expresses (pre-81) had manual lever systems, and 84 Sprees have the electronic auto-choke. Did the 83 Aero 50's have this system? Seems like this mod would be very helpful for anyone with models using it.

Honda also used this system on the 1984 Aero 80. In 1985 the Aero 80 got the electrical system started by the Aero 50 in 1983.

Bear we talked about this last year after I picked up the urban express. You mentioned it had the similar (stupid) bystarter system from the Aero.

Well here I am with a now running UE that doesn't like to run unless choked up by me putting my hand over the carb. Will this system work on my UE? I may or may not have MORE hoses than your Aero but I definitely need some direction.

Here's what I got...











Man I would LOVE to rip out all of these hoses... these UE's are a PITA to work on without taking out the motor, the airbox, the wheel, the fender.... and so on.

These next pics are mostly for Bear as he is helping me with my stupid vacuum choke system.

Anyway... Bear if I understood your directions correctly I believe I want to block off the tube coming out of the plastic vent but keep the one going from the carb. As illustrated below.



And then I'll want to put a ball valve between these 2 lines, one comes from the carb and one from the manifold.

Ball valve close = choking ||||| open = ready to ride.



Let me know if I'm headed in the right direction. I am getting mixed results with choking it by hand and it seems to be "spitting fuel" out of the carb opening onto my hand which of course is wasting fuel.

That is exactly what I suggested. Should work fine.

Bear45-70 wrote:That is exactly what I suggested. Should work fine.

Excellent - I'll work on it tonight. Last question where did you get your ball valve?

My local Lowe's didn't have anything I would consider acceptable. Auto parts store?

I got my ball valve a the local lumber/plumbing supply store. Small town American does not have a Lowe's or Home Depot but usually have what you need. A fuel shutoff valve would work.

Update - Not to inflate Bear's ego... but he is "dead on" with this modification. I put a ball valve between those 2 hoses, closed the valve, gave it a crank and my UE motor came to life, as it warmed up I opened the valve and was FINALLY able to set idle. I'm still working on some leaky carb issues but otherwise this modification is well worth it if only to get rid of all those hoses.

Thanks Bear.

Thanks for the good words.

I should just get one of these and end the madness...



http://www.treatland.tv/WEAK-ENDS-honda ... xpress.htm

and then I can be like this guy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTEwrDUmSv4