SA50P (Restricted guys) Oil pump Q

[bakaracer]

if you took out the welded washer out in the exhaust,the 78 main is to small still.you have to bump it to a 85 or 88 jet.yes tie open the injector.

85 or 88 main at 50cc?? Can anyone else confirm this? sounds like main size you would run with 70cc..

my only current mods are YMS exhaust and OKO pulley with 7.5g net

78main seems fine, my jog had 76main, stock bore, stock carb & box and with a tec RS pipe worked good.

maybe you have to bump yours up because of elevation? I'm very close to sea level here

and brad thanks for the offer but I have a spare split cable, but will be going to fully adjustable for a carb upgrade in the future anyway so wiring pump open seems good to me

I don't live in the mountains.I'm 5 miles from the water and tunning for you jog vs the dio is different.put a new plug in and see what it says with the 78 jet.

[qaz]

Brad, if the split cable fits a 99 Elite S, I could certainly use it. It would save me alot of premixing. Just PM me as to where to send the $5.

Qaz

[losthope]

if you took out the welded washer out in the exhaust,the 78 main is to small still.you have to bump it to a 85 or 88 jet.yes tie open the injector.

85 or 88 main at 50cc?? Can anyone else confirm this? sounds like main size you would run with 70cc..

my only current mods are YMS exhaust and OKO pulley with 7.5g net

78main seems fine, my jog had 76main, stock bore, stock carb & box and with a tec RS pipe worked good.

maybe you have to bump yours up because of elevation? I'm very close to sea level here

and brad thanks for the offer but I have a spare split cable, but will be going to fully adjustable for a carb upgrade in the future anyway so wiring pump open seems good to me

wouldnt the jet be smaller at high elevation? air is not as dense at high altitude.

[burnt_toast]

true true, had a brainfart there woops

on a side note i pulled the plug and it did look to be on the lean side but not too bad. still got 78main in there now and richened clip 1pos, see how that looks

[veedubh20]

i pull a plug was light brown tan, 1 1/2 a/f turn out, needle clip hasnt been touch. gn2 oil w/ 78 main jet

[MediumKahuna]

Do you want a 2 wire cable? I have one that I couldnt use for my application so if you want it $5 shipped

Please sell me the cable. I'll pay more than $5 and consider it a favor.
I noticed the lack of attachment to the oil pump and figured someone had removed it.
Ordered a new throttle cable and it came with no split .
Was about to order cable for SR (mine is S) but you could save me some bucks ($40 + shipping for new SR cable).
Also I'd be glad to send you the new cable with no split too, if you can use it.

[noiseguy]

85 or 88 main at 50cc?? Can anyone else confirm this? sounds like main size you would run with 70cc..

Don't just take his word for it, look up the service manuals.

The on the older '87 SE50 and SE50P, they used a #85 and #82 jet, respectively. See page 32.

http://www.hondaspree.net/other/SE50_19 ... Manual.pdf

The 88-93 used a #88. See page 30 in that manual.

http://www.hondaspree.net/other/Elite_S ... Manual.pdf

The smaller #78 and #68 jets were used in the Dio motors.

I had a couple of mystery motors and carbs here, and had to use the carbs to ID, so this is all fresh in mind. Jetting has a lot to do with the type of intake you're running; I'm betting the Dio intake is more efficient than the older Elite.

Coincidentally, I finally got a pod filter to run on a bike; an '87 Elite I'm rebuilding. The pod works fine. I looked at the airbox; unlike the Spree, the air intake tract is very short, a couple of inches into the box. Nothing like the Spree, which is 4" long. This bike has no problem starting and running on a pod filter. I just threw the pod on to run it up the street and back; parts are on order to get the right intake in place.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Noiseguy submits:

Jetting has a lot to do with the type of intake you're running; I'm betting the Dio intake is more efficient than the older Elite.

It hadn't occurred to me before, but you may be exactly right! I was able to swap to the SA/16 intake using the oddball 3-petal reed from the '87 Deej, which serves as an "adaptor". I did note Flash's performance softened just a tad with no other changes. Temps have stayed under 350 since then too, further supporting the contention that the change richened things up. I'll check the plug tonight to confirm.

Can you speculate as to Why this might be? First-glance intuition would suggest anything that reduces a restriction would pull more air through the carb. This alone would tend to produce a leaner mixture if the jet remained unchanged. Something else is happening here?

I think I'll try to address this with a lowered needle first. I don't think I have a jet smaller than the 100 currently in Arreche residence.

[burnt_toast]

85 or 88 main at 50cc?? Can anyone else confirm this? sounds like main size you would run with 70cc..

Don't just take his word for it, look up the service manuals.

The on the older '87 SE50 and SE50P, they used a #85 and #82 jet, respectively. See page 32.

http://www.hondaspree.net/other/SE50_19 ... Manual.pdf

The 88-93 used a #88. See page 30 in that manual.

http://www.hondaspree.net/other/Elite_S ... Manual.pdf

The smaller #78 and #68 jets were used in the Dio motors.

I had a couple of mystery motors and carbs here, and had to use the carbs to ID, so this is all fresh in mind. Jetting has a lot to do with the type of intake you're running; I'm betting the Dio intake is more efficient than the older Elite.

Coincidentally, I finally got a pod filter to run on a bike; an '87 Elite I'm rebuilding. The pod works fine. I looked at the airbox; unlike the Spree, the air intake tract is very short, a couple of inches into the box. Nothing like the Spree, which is 4" long. This bike has no problem starting and running on a pod filter. I just threw the pod on to run it up the street and back; parts are on order to get the right intake in place.

Thanks for confirming that noiseguy, def shoulda hit the manuals first.

Just checked and sure enough my own handy manual says 94+ sa50 takes #78 jet, good to hear

[noiseguy]

Can you speculate as to Why this might be? First-glance intuition would suggest anything that reduces a restriction would pull more air through the carb. This alone would tend to produce a leaner mixture if the jet remained unchanged. Something else is happening here?

Tuning on the intake side is a function of the overall length of the intake tract (from bell mouth to reeds), how far the carb sits off center from these ends, and how the "bell mouth" is designed.

In short, the most peaky intake would be with the carb dead centered, and the mouth a cut-off tube with no bell. It's peak would be a function of length. Moving the carb off-center makes it less peaky, as does longer bells, air boxes, and side-tuners (tubes attached to closed resevoirs, forgot the name.)

This is all non-trivial stuff for tuning. If you look at the various designs, the intakes are shorter or longer on different models, with differing airbox designs, which in turn impacts jetting. The '87 and '88 intakes are very different in length, for example.

When someone throws a pod filter on a Spree, then jets up to 90+ to get it to run, I don't think "gee, it's getting more air thus needs a larger jet." I think, "gee, he's wasting a lot of gas to get that inefficient pod filter, and too-short intake tract, to work. And I'll bet the benefit isn't worth the loss of efficiency."

Having worked with guys that design these boxes professionally (and done a few tuned-box designs myself for other auto bits), I know how much work it is to get it right and how experimentally based it is. A lot of trial and error. Frankly, I don't have the patience to do this unless someone's paying me, I'd rather keep it reasonable stock on the intake side and mess with other areas that can get me more benefit. Not trying to dissuade anyone, but that's my 2 cents.

That said, I just threw a pod on my '87 Elite, since the airbox needs a new boot to fit up and I didn't want to ingest any sand. It runs great that way. I wondered why, then opened the airbox up. The intake to airbox is about the same length as the pod filter, so it kind of makes sense that it would work fine.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Does the pod filter on your '87 have a closed end cap or open foam?

[noiseguy]

Closed: It's a K&N filter with the chrome cap.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

That's what I figured. Something to do with pressure-wave-induced supercharging effect when everything is timed just right. Go to Jetting Across the SE for my experience with intake mods and mixture.

[noiseguy]

Coolio, thanks!

[losthope]

Can you speculate as to Why this might be? First-glance intuition would suggest anything that reduces a restriction would pull more air through the carb. This alone would tend to produce a leaner mixture if the jet remained unchanged. Something else is happening here?

Tuning on the intake side is a function of the overall length of the intake tract (from bell mouth to reeds), how far the carb sits off center from these ends, and how the "bell mouth" is designed.

In short, the most peaky intake would be with the carb dead centered, and the mouth a cut-off tube with no bell. It's peak would be a function of length. Moving the carb off-center makes it less peaky, as does longer bells, air boxes, and side-tuners (tubes attached to closed resevoirs, forgot the name.)

This is all non-trivial stuff for tuning. If you look at the various designs, the intakes are shorter or longer on different models, with differing airbox designs, which in turn impacts jetting. The '87 and '88 intakes are very different in length, for example.

When someone throws a pod filter on a Spree, then jets up to 90+ to get it to run, I don't think "gee, it's getting more air thus needs a larger jet." I think, "gee, he's wasting a lot of gas to get that inefficient pod filter, and too-short intake tract, to work. And I'll bet the benefit isn't worth the loss of efficiency."

Having worked with guys that design these boxes professionally (and done a few tuned-box designs myself for other auto bits), I know how much work it is to get it right and how experimentally based it is. A lot of trial and error. Frankly, I don't have the patience to do this unless someone's paying me, I'd rather keep it reasonable stock on the intake side and mess with other areas that can get me more benefit. Not trying to dissuade anyone, but that's my 2 cents.

That said, I just threw a pod on my '87 Elite, since the airbox needs a new boot to fit up and I didn't want to ingest any sand. It runs great that way. I wondered why, then opened the airbox up. The intake to airbox is about the same length as the pod filter, so it kind of makes sense that it would work fine.

this is good info. never considered tube before the carb as part of intake length. my stock intake tube inside the air box on my 01 elite s is about 2 inches long, not counting the part the connects over the carb. so i put this info to the test and built a 2 inch piece of tube (1" piece of copper is the perfect size for stock carb) between my carb and air filter. my severely lean jet (with just pod filter) became so rich with the new intake length that it would flood at wot. i didnt have any smaller jets that i wanted to play with so i went back to just a pod filter.

Bottom line, good info, and using a small piece of pipe between the carb and filter is great for people that want to use a pod filter, or doesnt have all the stock airbox parts like myself.